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 A-counter

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sinakis
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PostSubject: A-counter   Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:57 pm

I am infuriated in not being able to find a freakin' rulling on a freakin' childrens' card game!!

What are the rules on a-counters?

wikia wrote:
Note that, due to the ruling on A-Counters, you need a monster that specifically mentions the ATK and DEF decrease on the field to use that effect. However, it's cumulative, allowing for drastic ATK and DEF reduction should multiple monsters on the field mention the ATK and DEF reduction.

Quote :
Another important effect of an Alien deck is the A-Counter 300 effect, an effect that reduces the ATK and DEF of a monster by 300 points for every counter on it. Most Alien monsters have this effect included, such as Alien Warrior, Alien Grey and Alien Telepath, but some with powerful effects like Alien Hypno and Alien Dog do not. Not only this, the effect that reduces the Attack of monsters fighting Aliens works for each Alien with that effect on the field. Easily explained, (Number of monsters with ability) X (Number of counters on monster) X 300 = Amount of Attack lost.

Some mention a "300" effect that stacks, some say it does not, some say the counter has the effect, some say that only when a monster that states the
Quote :
(If a monster with an A-Counter battles an "Alien" monster, it loses 300 ATK and DEF for each A-Counter during damage calculation only.)
is face-up on the field does that effect work, etc.
ummm...please help!
I can't find a valid source!

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PostSubject: Re: A-counter   Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:14 pm

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/User:Deus_Ex_Machina/Sandbox#A-Counters_.26_Aliens
you can trust deus-ex machina. he (or she) is one who edit to clarify the ruling page in wikia.
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PostSubject: Re: A-counter   Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:26 am

I think that the A-Counter effect stacks and works only for monsters that have the effect. But I'm not sure.
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PostSubject: Re: A-counter   Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:14 am

"Easily explained, (Number of monsters with ability) X (Number of counters on monster) X 300 = Amount of Attack lost."

That is enough for an answer.

If you have 2 or more monsters with the ATK decrease continuous effect and a monster with an A-Counter attacks an Alien monster, it will lose 600 ATK.

I did not excatly get what was your question but I'm pretty sure the A-Counter continuous effect stacks.

The above simple calculation should be enough.

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PostSubject: Re: A-counter   Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:32 am

The question is
Quote :
What are the rules on a-counters?

Thank you :)
From what I've read this far the equation is true, but the real problem is I have nothing to prove it.
Is there any other effect that works like this one?


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PostSubject: Re: A-counter   Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:58 am

sinakis wrote:
The question is
Quote :
What are the rules on a-counters?

Thank you :)
From what I've read this far the equation is true, but the real problem is I have nothing to prove it.
Is there any other effect that works like this one?


I am not sure if there's another effect similiar to this, but if your opponent doubts you, ask him to prove you wrong. Logical explanation is a proof too.

You can just tell him that there are 2 continuous effects and there is no reason for them not to stack. He needs proof to to prove you wrong.

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PostSubject: Re: A-counter   Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:08 am

My opinion is that it is not part of the effect. Opponent's monsters just lose 300 ATK and DEF for every A-counter on them when the battle an alien monster.

My proof is not very solid but it has a base. Any effect written on a yugioh card is written like this for some reason. So take a look at this.





Now you can see that both cards have to do with increase/decrease of points. What is different is that the 2nd eff is between those stupid things (.........)

Also it is a fact that the Jurrac's increase is part of its eff which stops working when the monster has left the field. So if Grey's decrease was part of its eff why on those (.........) ???? Something else also and then I can hear your opinion.



This is a Magic the Gathering card. As you can see on its text the Lifelink and Deathtouch are part of its abilities and the text in (........) is just the explanation. You also notice that the Flying which is also part of its ability doesn't have an explanation. Well it doesn't really matter cause the (text) is not part of the ability. What the ability does is stated in the official rules of MTG which are not really mentioned in the rulebooks and you can find them on the official MTG site.

So maybe the (text) on Alien Grey f.e. is just a reminder of what A-counters generally do. My opinion is that in such a matter you cannot trust wikia. Try the official site of Yu-Gi-Oh to find a solution. Or the Official Rules. Or something anyway....
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PostSubject: Re: A-counter   Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:17 am

That may not be true. In MTG there are whole sets that have explanations printed on them. In ygo, in the same set (Crimson Crisis) there are cards that mention a-counters in their card effect but do not mention the *300* effect and others that do!!
Check Gol'gar and Overlord.
Same with Mother and Skull/Warrior.
Same with Hypno and Telepath.
I would like to ask a judge xD

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PostSubject: Re: A-counter   Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:25 am

Well, try the ''contact us'' button on the official ygo site and send an e-mail. This might clear thing up once and for all.


P.S.An for the record in mtg there are cards of the same set that some include the (text) and some don't. I can give examples but this is a ygo forum so nvm.
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PostSubject: Re: A-counter   Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:55 am

I've mailed them 4 days ago, still no answer. I hope I'll get one though. I found a site I believe is trustworthy. It's www.yu-judges.com.

Quote :
The effect "If a monster with an A-Counter battles an "Alien" monster, it loses 300 ATK and DEF for each A-Counter during damage calculation only." is cumulative.

Source: http://www.yu-judges.com/cat338_p4.htm#5

Quote :
"Alien Hunter" does not have the A-Counter ATK reduction effect. So if it is the only "Alien" you control, and it battles a monster with an A-Counter, that opposing monster will NOT lose 300 ATK.

Source: http://www.yu-judges.com/cat269_p3.htm#6

So I hope wikia is right for once!...

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PostSubject: Re: A-counter   Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:06 am

*Bump!*
I FINALLY got a reply from KONAMI! It states the following:

konami wrote:
If there are no monsters on the field with the ATK/DEF reduction effect, the monster that is battling does not lose any ATK or DEF.



If there are multiple monsters on the field with the ATK/DEF reduction effect, the monster that is battling loses ATK and DEF for both of them.
I can provide a screenshot if needed!

So the reduction is calculated like this:
300*(Number of a-counters)*(Number of face-up Aliens with the effect)

So if I have two face-up Alien Warriors and an opposing monster has two a-counters on it, that monster loses 300*2*2=1200 ATK/DEF when it battles with an Alien.

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PostSubject: Re: A-counter   Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:14 pm

So I guess I was wrong9way back in one of our duels :P) Good to know the ruling now!

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