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 Tag Duel ???

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ace94
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PostSubject: Tag Duel ???   Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:52 am

I hope this is the right domain. If not, Admins plz move it to the proper section.

So, I went to the Games Fair the other day and took part in some interesting event called Island of Terror. What I found most interesting about it was that it featured Tag Duels (one of which I took part in). The only problem was that every 4 duelists playing were using different rules for Tag Dueling. Others had separate fields and lp, others had separate fields and common lp, others had them all common. others could activate traps to support their teammates and others didn't. Others could see their teammates hand and others couldn't. All in all I got confused. I always liked the original variant of Tag Dueling where field and lp among teammates were separate but Spell/Trap support is allowed (which is IMHO the best working variant) but could someone clear thing up for me by posting the Official Tag-Duel Rules ?
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PostSubject: Re: Tag Duel ???   Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:48 pm

in yu-gi-oh world championship tag duel rules are: you share 8000 lp with your partner and same field/grave/rfg but not deck/hand. you go, 1 of your opponents goes, your partner goes, the other opponent goes until one side has 0lp/decks out/instant win...
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PostSubject: Re: Tag Duel ???   Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:08 am

Yes, what vongola said, and you can't view your opponent's hand, but you can see face-down cards he has placed on the field!

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PostSubject: Re: Tag Duel ???   Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:54 am

Tag duels are not legal (because there are no specific rules from konami regarding them).
Back in the days, just when the Evil Heroes were released, I clearly remember finding specific rules on the official yu-gi-oh site. It explained how certain spells worked (like Card Destruction makes all players discard while Reckless Greed makes only the user skip his Draw Phases and stuff like that), how the field was separated etc..

I am terribly sorry but I didn't save the rules (I just made the page a "favourite"). Never did I expect that some time after uploading it the site would close down :/

The yu-gi-oh championship tag duel rules s*ck imho. I would prefer rules like magic, although I know that there are variations there too.

How about (these are not official):
Separate Fields - Hands - Decks
You can look at your teammate's hand (makes the game more interesting and adds the "nodding" part of tag dueling ;P )
Same team players take their turn in the same time. You both draw then decide when to give your Main Phase etc up together.

I am not quite sure about the LP. If you share 8000 LP wth two players it's too little (surely if someone's playing Psychics). If you share 16000 LP, cards that activate when your LP is above 8000 or Psychics become broken. So I would suggest each player having 8000 LP for himself. Then again, what happens when both players target one (as it usualy happens)?

There comes KONAMI's solution. You can only attack the player that is in front of you.

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PostSubject: Re: Tag Duel ???   Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:47 am

@Vongola: I am aware of the Tag Rules of the specific game but experience in Yu-Gi-Oh! Games has shown me not to trust them in ruling matters.

@Sin: I agree with the rules you suggested in the most parts. The only thing in which I disagree is about being able to see your opponent's hand. Although knowing what your teamate is holding allows sbdy to plan a strategy better, not knowing what your teamate is holding is IMHO far more interesting and fun cause in order to win you either have to know your partner's deck and playing style well or you have to fully trust him in his descisions and he has to do the same. Especially in the 2nd case, the Teamwork spirit is enforced and it gives both the players the chance to play (in the Isle of Terror, in the Tag in which I was participating, One of my opp. was fully controling the other's move - poor kid didn't have a chance to make a move of his own)


Please continue suggesting rules on Tag Dueling. If KONAMI doesn't give us the rules we are gonna make them. And of course if sbdy finds the official ones please post here ASAP.
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PostSubject: Re: Tag Duel ???   Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:16 am

There are no official rules. There used to be hen it was owned by Upper Deck, but since Konami has it now, those rules are no longer official, even if you could find them. To my knowledge, Konami doesn't host official tag team tkurnemenrs so that's not technically a problem, but it would be nice if they did. You can make up your own rules for locals, so long as everyone agrees on them
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PostSubject: Re: Tag Duel ???   Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:34 pm

I was talking about the exact same thing Harp ;)
So, if there are no official rules, we can make them up. I believe we should make this topic (or a different one) to discuss on the rules. I know it wouldn't interest tournament players, but it would be funny as hell.

So how about tribute summon/ritual/fusion materials? Can you use your partner's monsters?
I think you shouldn't (which makes it different than YWC).

About the looking at his hand now:
I agree with what you said that you shouldn't control your partner. If you know what your partner is playing beforehand then you can nod if you go on the offensive or have some assistance for him so not seeing his hand would give the tag duel more suspence, agreed.

Off to more complex rules.
What about cards like Planet Pollutant Virus?
Quote :
Tribute 1 "Alien" monster. Destroy all face-up monsters without A-Counters your opponent controls. Until the end of your opponent's 3rd turn after this card's activation, place 1 A-Counter on each monster they Summon.
Would it get to destroy both players' monsters? Will both players get the counters? In both situations the card turns out to be broken. So I would suggest making the "your opponent controls" and "each monster they summon" apply only on 1 opponent.
Same for Mirror Force.

So far so good.
Back to Card Destruction now.
The third Errata is:
Quote :
Each player discards their entire hand and draws the same number of cards they discarded.
but the first Errata was:
Quote :
You and your opponent discard your entire hands and draw the same number of cards from your respective Decks that you discarded.
If the previous new rule applies, then according to the 3rd Errata, all players apply it's effect. According to the 1st Errata, though, only 1 of the opponents applies it. So what will it be?

Another interesting fact is that the chains in such a duel could get above 4 making cards such as Accumulated Fortune and Chain Strike too powerful. What about them?

When one of the players reaches 0 LP, does the duel end?

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PostSubject: Re: Tag Duel ???   Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:56 am

Well let me say my opinion on sinakis's previous post.

1)No, you shouldn't use your partner's monsters for Tribute/Synchro/Ritual/Cost etc. Remember that everything between you and your partner is separate (hand/field/Grave) - the only thing you have in common is the Turn Steps.

2)Totally agree with you on the ''your opponent controls'' and on the ''each monster they summon''. Same with ''on your opponent's side of the field'' (while ''on the field'' aplies to all players (e.g. Dark Hole).

3)On the Card destruction matter: It is known that when a card is re-released with a different errata, this is done so that there won't be any ruling confusion and it's text is made so that it can match the ''evolution'' of the game rules (the more the releases, the more complex the rules become). I remember reading somewhere that when you have a card which has been re-released on a different errata, the last errata text applies as your card's as well. I also remember that in case you have a card that has been re-released, you need to have a photocopy of the official (last errata) Text with you for official tournaments. So problem solved. Konami says the last errata is the official so who are we to defy it ? If the text changes again to the first errata's in the future, then the rules for this card will automatically change.

4)It was about time cards like Chain Strike got a little overpowered and give the players a good excuse to use them. Remember that in the anime existed Tag Duel Only cards that were overpowered and gave advantage to the holder. Since card's like this don't exist, I personally don't mind having cards like Chain Strike without inventing a rule to limit their power. And of course, don't forget that Tag Dueling is supposed to be played only for fun and not tournaments. So I doubt that anyone will change their deck to abuse such cards if he doesn't have them in his deck in the first place.

5)I think not. I always liked the epic feeling a Tag Duel gives you when your partner's LP reach 0 and you have to take on both opponents by yourself. This was impossible with the ''share lp'' ruling but since we got rid of that then, why not ? And we also have the rule where both partner's share their Turn Steps so there won't be sth as unfair for the ''left alone'' player like : Opp A sets a facedown. Opp B's turn begins and Opp A activates his card. The only hard part will be that both players may attack the ''left alone'' player now (considered that we apply the rule you suggested that ''each player can attack the player in front of him'' when both partner's are still on the game). I think that with the rule you suggested it fits perfectly. If one of the players manages to take down the player in front of him, then he gets to help his partner do the same. And we are back on teamwork, the very essence of Tag Dueling.


All people who are interested on helping create that Tag Duel rules, feel free to post your opinion on the above statements or propose some rulings of your own.
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PostSubject: Re: Tag Duel ???   Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:40 am

vem123 wrote:
Yes, what vongola said, and you can't view your opponent's hand, but you can see face-down cards he has placed on the field!
Oh, I can see my opponents facedown cards?

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PostSubject: Re: Tag Duel ???   Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:59 am

Well here's how we donut at my local noob tournament (it isn't locals so it will be called a noob tournements xD). Your hand and graveyard are your own. The field however is shared. That means you can tribute your opponent's monsters, fuse with them, or synch with them. You cannot activate your opponent's spells or traps but you can know what they are so you may as well be able to. There's a time limit though for how long you can discuss strategy bc let me tell you that gets boring quick. The shared field is so the partners can protect each other if one of them is open for a direct attack. Life points are shared but only 8000. The only problem that comes up is when some card is used that makes your opponent draw. Clearly if YOU use a card that makes you draw it only works for you and not your partner. But what if someone uses something stupid like Level Modulation? Or Card/Hand Destruction or Datk World Dealings? Do all draw? Do all discard and draw
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PostSubject: Re: Tag Duel ???   Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:23 pm

@Geo: This thread has not been opened to troll people so don't do that. I think that everybody understood the meaning of Vem's post.

@Harper: It really depends on the rules you agree to beforehand. We are trying to make some ''stable'' rulings that will corespond to the card texts but this really needs thought and depends on the style of the Tag you play (Some rulings are ok to one Tag style but create problems in another. About discussing strategy, I totally agree with you. Discussing too much gets boring. That's why we are trying to limit the influence one player has on his partner as much as possible. So that they can cooporate more by ''instinct'' and less by discussion.
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