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 Can Doomcalibur kill two birds with itself? (Complications)

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Vongola-I
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PostSubject: Can Doomcalibur kill two birds with itself? (Complications)   Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:53 am

I dueled some the other day and he was running a character deck, Yugi's to be exact. He had two Skilled Dark Magicians on the field, one had a counter from him playing Swords. I had Doomcalibur Knight on the field the next turn.

During his turn, he summoned another Skilled Dark Magician and activated Mage Power which causes both to gain a counter off an effect at the exact same time and I don't believe there was an order to their activation.

I read up on simultaneous effects and all I got from that is that Doomcalibur Knight just negates the last card in the order.

But, still, those two monsters effects happened at the exact same time, so did it take them both out?

Still I'm not sure if I can ask that because Doomcalibur Knight doesn't specify a plural word like Bottomless Trap Hole does when it says "Card(s)."

I'm really stumped on what happens. Mind if I get an expert to explain this to me?
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PostSubject: Re: Can Doomcalibur kill two birds with itself? (Complications)   Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:31 pm

Actually Doomcaliber Knight WILL NOT trigger since no effect was activated.

Skilled Dark Magician's effect that adds a spell counter on itself everytime a spell is activated is NOT a trigger effect. It's a continuous effect, and continuous effects do not start a chain, therefore they cannot be negated by effects of cards like Divine Wrath or Doomcaliber Knight.


Now, to give you some more information:

You have a Doomcaliber Knight on your side of the field, and your opponent has 2 face-up Dandylions. You activate Lightning Vortex and destroy them both. They activate simoultaneously, forming a chain : Chain Link 1 Dandylion, Chain Link 2 Dandylion, Chain Link 3 Doomcaliber. Only one of the two will be negated, and that will be the Dandylion in the Chain Link 2. The order simoultaneous effects will be put in a chain depends on which player's turn is.

The order simultaneous trigger effects are put in a chain is the following :

1) Turn Player's Mandatory Effects
2) Non-Turn Player's Mandatory Effects
3) Turn Player's Optional Effects
4) Non-Turn Player's Optional Effects

So, if it's your turn and you and your opponent control a Sangan, and you attack your opponent's Sangan with yours and they are both sent to the graveyard, their effects activate simultaneously, but your Sangan's effects is in chain link 1 while your opponent's Sangan is in chain link 2. That's because your Sangan's effect activated in YOUR turn, therefore it's a turn player's mandatory effect, therefore it goes first in the chain, while your opponent's effect is non-turn player's mandatory effect, so it goes second. Then Doomcaliber activates two in he goes in chain link 3, negating the effect in chain link 2, which is your opponent's Sangan.

If the both effects that activate simultaneously are YOURS, then you can put them in the chain as you wish. Say you got 1 Sangan and 1 Dandylion and you destroy them both with Torrential Tribute. You can decide which of the two will be in chain link 1. It can be either Sangan's or Dandylion's effect, it's up to you to decide.


However, as I explained above, don't get confused. In your case Doomcaliber won't activate, since there was no monster effect that activated.

Hope this helped.

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Stef

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PostSubject: Re: Can Doomcalibur kill two birds with itself? (Complications)   Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:56 pm

Oh, I see. I didn't think Skilled Dark Magician was a continuous effect. That, I know of. I remember summoning Dark Simorgh, and someone told me that Doomcaliber negates that monster and destroys it, which I thought wasn't right since the effect is continuous and doesn't trigger any self activations. Good thing I knew that much.

Thank you for the information.

I'll take it to heart.
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PostSubject: Re: Can Doomcalibur kill two birds with itself? (Complications)   Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:34 pm

Vongola-I wrote:
Oh, I see. I didn't think Skilled Dark Magician was a continuous effect. That, I know of. I remember summoning Dark Simorgh, and someone told me that Doomcaliber negates that monster and destroys it, which I thought wasn't right since the effect is continuous and doesn't trigger any self activations. Good thing I knew that much.

Thank you for the information.

I'll take it to heart.

Actually, he probably meant the SUMMON of Dark Simorgh, not the effect that prevents the opponent from setting cards.

"You can remove from play 1 DARK monster and 1 WIND monster from your Graveyard to Special Summon this card from your hand." This part of the effect is an ignition effect, and it DOES start a chain. Therefore, if you try to special summon Dark Simorgh, his effect will be negated by Doomcaliber Knight and he'll be destroyed.


However if Dark Simorgh was ALREADY on the field, then the effect "Your opponent cannot Set any cards on the field." is continuous and cannot be negated by Doomcaliber Knight. Same goes for "While this card is face-up on the field its Attribute is also treated as WIND.".

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